Should the west leave ?

by **pink.sugar** on Sun May 27, 2007, 18:06

chipz wrote:if some west coutries stop the big four maybe they will start to make better songs

If they do, Eurovision will collapse

by **Almansa** on Mon May 28, 2007, 23:05

Should the west leave ?

Yes :wink:

by **NinjaLove** on Thu May 31, 2007, 03:01

chipz wrote:if some west coutries stop the big four maybe they will start to make better songs

Which has nothing to do with each other, actually.
Semifinalists do better on average than finalists, so it is in your advantage to start in the semi actually.
I have to admit that whatever kind of bloc voting or diaspora voting there is, the winner would still be the same. Below the first place there are huge differences because of it. I mean, if the Netherlands had sent Shake it up shekerim it would obtain a much lower rank than Turkey did this year.
But the West shouldn't leave, because with a good song you'll win. It is only pretty bad that some good songs do not make it to the final or do not obtain a good rank because of the stupid diaspora.

by **JuhaJaara** on Fri Jun 01, 2007, 02:38

pink.sugar wrote:If they do, Eurovision will collapse

Well, the east block has been able to organise its own song contests, so perhaps the western money isn't that important some people might imagine it to be!

by **NinjaLove** on Fri Jun 01, 2007, 08:18

JuhaJaara wrote:
pink.sugar wrote:If they do, Eurovision will collapse

Well, the east block has been able to organise its own song contests, so perhaps the western money isn't that important some people might imagine it to be!

That was during the Communist era, and like we all know they got bankrupt.

by **JuhaJaara** on Fri Jun 01, 2007, 19:14

NinjaLove wrote:That was during the Communist era, and like we all know they got bankrupt.

As far as I know, there are song festivals and contests even today in the former east block countries.

by **NinjaLove** on Mon Jun 04, 2007, 05:56

Not the one I meant: the Intervision Song Contest, held between 1977 and 1980.

by **JuhaJaara** on Mon Jun 04, 2007, 13:26

NinjaLove wrote:Not the one I meant: the Intervision Song Contest, held between 1977 and 1980.

Well, it depends... For me, it seems that Intervision Song Contest was just a part of Sopot Song Festival, that has a much longer history. See, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopot_Inte ... g_Festival . And my point was to say that there have been other song festivals and contests as well, so I'm quite confident the Eastern countries are able to organize ESC as well, even without the western money. Perhaps it might look a bit different, but at least for me that would be OK since I think it's music that matters.

by **NinjaLove** on Mon Jun 04, 2007, 20:12

I see, I didn't know that. Only heard of the Intervision.
But still, the Western countries contribute more and in that way we can keep running the big shows the Eurovision is each year. I'd regret it to see that go.

by **jPod** on Mon Jun 11, 2007, 16:37

I believe Western Europe shouldn't leave. Don't let the Eastern side win. If you leave you'll just make them satisfied without realizing the kind of loser they really are. I have a Macedonian background but I was born in Australia. I'm just so disghusted how the neighbouring political votings have once AGAIN ruined another Eurovision year.

Here's an example:

If Macedonia sang Vertigo it would have passed into the final with flying colours. But if Malta sang Mojot Svet it wouldn't even reach the top 10. Proves to show how neighbouring voting can be.

I didn't think the voting was fair. Eastern Europe voted for each other without giving the Western countries a chance. Anyone from Western Europe will see this. Those from Eastern will fight and deny it. Because they are too afraid to admit the truth to make themselves look weak. I think Eastern Europe were afraid of competition. Afraid to get their asses kicked.

Malta, Switzerland, Denmark, Poland, Andorra, Portugal, Cyprus, Norway and Estonia were all from the West... kinda. Yet, none of these amazing songs/performances didn't even make it into the final. Did they suck? No? It was due to bad political voting by the East. Afraid of competition. Heh, it really proves to show who's weak ay?

by **NinjaLove** on Mon Jun 11, 2007, 19:45

Diaspora voting is key here. I wouldn't say that all Western songs deserved it to be in the final, on the contrary, because overall the Eastern songs are better. But some songs just proceed because of those freakin' diaspora.

by **jPod** on Mon Jun 11, 2007, 19:50

NinjaLove wrote:Diaspora voting is key here. I wouldn't say that all Western songs deserved it to be in the final, on the contrary, because overall the Eastern songs are better. But some songs just proceed because of those freakin' diaspora.

the eastern SOMETIMES have better songs
but above all... this year they horribly were poor...
but above all good at the same time... but shouldnt
have made it into the final xD

it's like watching little children squabble for a little piece
of cheesecake...

by **NinjaLove** on Tue Jun 12, 2007, 07:07

This year was a good year, nice songs. The overall level of Eastern songs was way higher than Western Europe. Nevertheless some Eastern songs, like Macedonia, weren't that strong and wouldn't proceed to the final if it was up to me. On the other hand, on the 11th place was Portugal with a song that was pretty boring, so surprises everywhere.

by **Milos-BC** on Tue Jun 12, 2007, 07:47

NinjaLove wrote:This year was a good year, nice songs. The overall level of Eastern songs was way higher than Western Europe. Nevertheless some Eastern songs, like Macedonia, weren't that strong and wouldn't proceed to the final if it was up to me. On the other hand, on the 11th place was Portugal with a song that was pretty boring, so surprises everywhere.

And you forgot Andorra who ended up in 12th place,which was another shock for me.It was a great song indeed,but i didn't believed that a country like Andorra could end up so high

by **jPod** on Tue Jun 12, 2007, 10:28

NinjaLove wrote:This year was a good year, nice songs. The overall level of Eastern songs was way higher than Western Europe. Nevertheless some Eastern songs, like Macedonia, weren't that strong and wouldn't proceed to the final if it was up to me. On the other hand, on the 11th place was Portugal with a song that was pretty boring, so surprises everywhere.

Portugal wasn't as boring as I expected. The performance was tango energetic. I liked it. It had a good beat.

by **jPod** on Tue Jun 12, 2007, 10:29

Bugs Bunny wrote:
NinjaLove wrote:This year was a good year, nice songs. The overall level of Eastern songs was way higher than Western Europe. Nevertheless some Eastern songs, like Macedonia, weren't that strong and wouldn't proceed to the final if it was up to me. On the other hand, on the 11th place was Portugal with a song that was pretty boring, so surprises everywhere.

And you forgot Andorra who ended up in 12th place,which was another shock for me.It was a great song indeed,but i didn't believed that a country like Andorra could end up so high

I was shocked they didn't make it into the final... they were good! the song was similar to blink and simple plan

by **NinjaLove** on Fri Jun 15, 2007, 01:40

Although Anonymous had the problem they were singing a bit too low. Nevertheless it was a catchy song.

by **Milos-BC** on Fri Jun 15, 2007, 12:06

That's the point.If you have a good song no way you will end in the bottom.Take Portugal and Andorra this year for example,and Finland and Ireland last year.

by **MARTYM8** on Sat Jun 16, 2007, 03:22

Bugs Bunny wrote:That's the point.If you have a good song no way you will end in the bottom.Take Portugal and Andorra this year for example,and Finland and Ireland last year.

Yes - but Ireland came only 10th last year with a song they probably would have won with ten years ago.

The argument isn't really whether the Western European countries should leave Eurovision - the simple fact is that Eurovision has left us. We invented the contest but how can we compete with countries like Russia, the ex Yugoslav states and Turkey that automatically begin with a 70 point+ head start each year due to neighbourly and diaspora voting!

I doubt Abba's Waterloo or Katrina's Love Shine A Light would stand a chance of winning Eurovision now if they were entered by Sweden or the UK.

by **Milos-BC** on Sat Jun 16, 2007, 07:54

MARTYM8 wrote:
Bugs Bunny wrote:That's the point.If you have a good song no way you will end in the bottom.Take Portugal and Andorra this year for example,and Finland and Ireland last year.

Yes - but Ireland came only 10th last year with a song they probably would have won with ten years ago.

The argument isn't really whether the Western European countries should leave Eurovision - the simple fact is that Eurovision has left us. We invented the contest but how can we compete with countries like Russia, the ex Yugoslav states and Turkey that automatically begin with a 70 point+ head start each year due to neighbourly and diaspora voting!

I doubt Abba's Waterloo or Katrina's Love Shine A Light would stand a chance of winning Eurovision now if they were entered by Sweden or the UK.

Yes,but now look back at those 10-15 years.........Ireland won 7 times(i do not say that it wasn't deserved.....the songs were great),UK was almost always in the TOP 3,and the rest of Western countries were always at the top,while the east was at the bottom.

Now the times have chnaged with the televoting era.Now you are turning against ESC because you accept that it isn't 1987,1988....etc. anymore,and that people want something different than just good song.We won this year without almost any stage show,but because were many soviet countries so didn't favourised one country(Ukraine....).In that case we wouldn't win,but you can't say that the Ukranian entry was bad.

So,my opinion is that instead of complaining all the time, you should try to produce the song that will appeal to the whole Europe,and which is not the entry like from the last century.Then you will qualify for the final............

Tell me now,who liked Scooch for example and thought that it deserved more than 3 points?

by **NinjaLove** on Sat Jun 16, 2007, 09:30

Probably Katrina would have won, the 5 televoting countries in that year awarded a lot of points to their song (but yes these countries are Western).
However, times change and people want different songs. Brian Kennedy had a good ballad but would not have won in the expert jury era imo.
And I won't repeat all my other posts.

by **martin003** on Sat Jun 16, 2007, 20:17

hmmm televoting i think has become out of hand, The Big 4 devised the idea because they give 40% of all money to charity this is how it started, now televoting personally is out of control and needs to be um 50/50 with jury. However the Issue with televoting is that the best song will ALWAYS win!! but the 2 - 10 will be the ones with the most diaspora (TURKEY! for example)

i think the scoreboard in total needs reviewing :roll:

its extremely outdated and was used when we had 14 countries now there is 24, me thinks EBU need a rethink before countries withdraw

scooch deserved more than three points

but not a lot more they had (19) enough to satisfy the song no more no less , cyndi should've gone in!!!!!!!

ah well cyndi dear can you come back next year

hmmmmm this is a hard subject

sack svante and lets start fresh with a new everything i can see countries leaving in the next 10 years

by **NinjaLove** on Sat Jun 16, 2007, 22:09

But expert juries aren't the real deal either. In the 90s they vote for the musically most interesting song, not necessarily something which has high selling potential. And Lordi did sell!
Also, the back-up juries are no experts imo: a few people taken from the street. I mean, if Andorra's 'expert' jury votes for Ukraine there is no end to it. Then it doesn't matter if we use a jury or televoting.

by **MARTYM8** on Sun Jun 17, 2007, 04:41

[/quote]

Tell me now,who liked Scooch for example and thought that it deserved more than 3 points?[/quote]

I didn't like Scooch's song but I also thought the Ukranian entry was dreadful too! The difference is one got 19 points and the other got 235!

If Verka had been representing the UK whats the betting he/she would have struggled to get even 19 points.

To be honest I doubt any western country will be able to win Eurovision again under disapora and neighbourly televoting - even if Sweden sent Abba, the UK sent Katrina, Switzerland sent Celine Dion and Ireland sent Johnny Logan they wouldn't stand a chance!

by **Milos-BC** on Sun Jun 17, 2007, 08:27

If UK send Verka i'm sure you would get a lot more points...............

Well Spain and Germany had great songs in 2004 and they both finished in the TOP 10.And in 2003 Spain was also great and it topped on 7th place.

So,as you see when BIG 4 countries have good songs they pass good.

Although i think that Germany was really underrated,i liked it really,but it was an oldfashioned entry,and that's why it didn't finished higher.

Spain was also good,but it performed second,and the second reason for failure is that boybands are no longer attraction on ESC.

France was more than horrible........i thought it would end last with 0 points.

As for Western country winning the ESC.........Finland won it didn't it?.......and without any diaspora. :wink:

Should the west leave ?

Should we leave ESC for good?

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