One of the most discussed ESC rules is the the free langauge rule. I support that rule (EDIT: as it is now) not just because it helps people from other countries to understand what the performers sing, but also because we get things like the italian tenors from latvia or the multilingual romanian song.

However I think one option might lure people to sing in their own languages and at the same time make everyone understand the song: the option to have a song subtitled in each countries language. Some performers like the this years Ukrainian entry might not want to pull that option because subtitles would distract from their show, but it would probably help others like the german one to be understood better and enable the majority of english songs to be sung in mothertongue instead.

What are your thoughts?

I read that some countries are already using subtitles. I like the idea, it would make things easier.

However, I am one of the people who oppose the language rule. I don't mind having songs being performed in english. And if you look at the songs in the finals for this year: 3 songs out of the Top 5 are Non-English songs. People focus too much on the language situation. If a song is good it will be successfull.

I seem to attract misunderstandings like a magnet. I support the rule as it is now: free language. So I am on your side here.

Fabian wrote:I seem to attract misunderstandings like a magnet. I support the rule as it is now: free language. So I am on your side here.

Na, I'm just ignorant. I overread that part where you said you are supporting that rule. Just ignore me

No problem

On another note: You said, some are already using them. I did not notice that in Semi Finals or Finals so - where? Does the EBU already support this? My idea would be to air local subtitles on each station.

I saw several videos on you tube from different broadcasters over Europe. And some of them used subtitles. I need to look around and find them but I also heard about people using them. I do not know exactly which countries use subtitles though.
To my understanding it is all optional, it has nothing to do with the EBU. I could be wrong though.

Fabian wrote: You said, some are already using them. I did not notice that in Semi Finals or Finals so - where?

Here in Finland, we do have them. They are quite literal translations of the lyrics, and as such, quite funny themselves Usually, however, I do not read them, as I want to concentrate on music. And in most cases, song lyrics are just silly if not horrible, so it is better not to understand them. For instance, I just can't see anything so special in the lyrics of this year's Macedonian entry that it would have been absolutely necessary to sing the last chorus in English.

I'm wondering a bit if people really understand songs with English words that well, at least I'm not able to do that. I may hear some phrases I can understand but the most part just can't convey any meaning for me. If I really want to understand, I have to read the lyrics. (However I do not read them on TV screen, but in diggiloo thrush or some similar place.) Songs with lyrics in English have succeeded better, that's true, but might it just be that they sound better, or, at least more familiar, than songs with some exotic funny-sounding language?

Personally I prefer songs with native language (and I'm glad such songs succeeded well this year), but it is a matter of style, too. If you have strong folk music elements in your song, it sounds more natural if you use native language; on the other hand, blues, rock'n roll and such styles sound natural in English. So I'm not in favor of a more restrictive language rule. Other reason for not supporting a more restrictive rule are ethnic minorities: In most ESC countries, there are only one or a few official languages. However, there are many people with different languages living there. If a country's representative comes from an ethnic minority group, he or she should be able to use his/her own language.

maomania wrote: I do not know exactly which countries use subtitles though.
.

The UK does you just press a little red button a your tv remote and up pops the subtitles, some songs such as Bulgaria didn't make sense during the subtitles it was just a


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHIEEEEEEEEEEEEE! i have never laughed at subtitles until now

isnt it true that the free language rule means that participants can actually make up a language to sing? and i notice that some countries mix english in with their native language

Lanbobjohn wrote:isnt it true that the free language rule means that participants can actually make up a language to sing? and i notice that some countries mix english in with their native language

It's true - look at Belgium 2003 sung in an imaginary language. As for mixing the languages well sometimes it works (Israel 2005, France 2001) sometimes it doesn't (Macedonia 2007 completely ruined a fabulous song by finishing it in English)

Well Estonia has always subtitled the songs or at least as long as i remember (since 2000) And i think it is a good idea. I tought every country has it so. And our translation to Bulgaria this year wasnt

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

No SUBTITLES! I've seen subtitles in English from different languages and in Spanish and the songs do not make sense at all. That is why people sometimes don't vote for you. Subtitles can totally change the cotent of the song.

Um... Since I'm used to subtitles I cannot fully understand what you mean, aletem. How will the content of the song change? If you don't understand the lyrics then you don't know what the song is about if there's no subtitles. If you understand the lyrics, then you don't need to read the subtitles, it's as simple as that.

In Finland we're used to subtitles. Not on music videos but foreign movies and TV programs. Finnish programs have no subtitles, of course. But for some programs you can get them if you like, they're sometimes available for the deaf people.

On finnish TV all of the ESC songs have subtitles except our own entry if it's in finnish (I think). I don't usually read them but sometimes it's nice to see what the lyrics mean. If they're really stupid, well, we've got a right to know that, don't we?

I think the subtitles are a ridicilous idea, they take away from the songs the original meaning of what they were meant for. Music transcends language and linguistic barriers and people should understand this. The free language rule enables people to sing in a chosen language of their choice, there should be a rule against made up languages (such as this years drivel from Belgium!) and place more of an empahsis on encouraging each country to either sing in a European language or even better in a minority language (such as Roma,Basque etc.)

[/quote]
Other reason for not supporting a more restrictive rule are ethnic minorities: In most ESC countries, there are only one or a few official languages. However, there are many people with different languages living there. If a country's representative comes from an ethnic minority group, he or she should be able to use his/her own language.[/quote]

I agree with you. I would like to see a representative from Spain or France singing in basque and the subtitles

Or Catalan!

eurovisionireland wrote:Or Catalan!

Of course. I love catalan and gallego too. But I have said basque because I'm from the Basque Country and it would be funny to see the translations. And I would like to speak catalan but I can't but I'm sure one day I'll learn it.

minka h wrote:Um... Since I'm used to subtitles I cannot fully understand what you mean, aletem. How will the content of the song change? If you don't understand the lyrics then you don't know what the song is about if there's no subtitles. If you understand the lyrics, then you don't need to read the subtitles, it's as simple as that.

eurovisionireland wrote:I think the subtitles are a ridicilous idea, they take away from the songs the original meaning of what they were meant for. Music transcends language and linguistic barriers and people should understand this.

Well, just for this once i have to disagree with you, Minka, and agree with Eurovisionireland (now that's a first)

I really, really feel subtitles really ruin a song & performance... I used the HATE them on Finnish ESC broadcast... (Luckily it's not a problem here in the UK ) They are just so utterly, utterly clumsy, and to be hoest, often song lyrics just don't seem to make sense written down like that, in front of you... They just seem ridiculous (even if they aren't)... It's difficult to explain, but I just strongly feel that there shouldn't be any subtitles to songs, or at least they should be optional...

chikifanbilbao wrote:

eurovisionireland wrote:Or Catalan!

Of course. I love catalan and gallego too. But I have said basque because I'm from the Basque Country and it would be funny to see the translations. And I would like to speak catalan but I can't but I'm sure one day I'll learn it.

Euskadi Hermetten? I love the Basque country and its language. Its not a member of the Indo - European language family as far as I know.

Cheers Melina, great minds think alike

I would love the rule re-enforced that made countries sing in thier own languages but if youre talking about having subtitles on the screen with no option to take them off then I say no. A lot fo countries will already have optional subtitles in place for the foregin songs giving translations...the Uk for instance

eurovisionireland wrote:

chikifanbilbao wrote:

eurovisionireland wrote:Or Catalan!

Of course. I love catalan and gallego too. But I have said basque because I'm from the Basque Country and it would be funny to see the translations. And I would like to speak catalan but I can't but I'm sure one day I'll learn it.

Euskadi Hermetten? I love the Basque country and its language. Its not a member of the Indo - European language family as far as I know.

No, it's not Indo-European. Nobody knows where it comes from. And I'm happy to hear that you like my country and my mother tongue. It's a bit difficult but it's beautiful

I have heard many outlandish bgut wonderful theories from the bizzare that the Basques are from what was Atlantis to some theories which say they are a Lost Tribe of Israel. Isnt there a star of David on Basque graves? What are the current theories on the origins of the Basque nation?

eurovisionireland wrote:I have heard many outlandish bgut wonderful theories from the bizzare that the Basques are from what was Atlantis to some theories which say they are a Lost Tribe of Israel. Isnt there a star of David on Basque graves? What are the current theories on the origins of the Basque nation?

I can't tell you because the most important theory said that we come from Africa but now some studies say that this is not true. I haven't heard that we are from Israel. I have never seen a star of David in the Basque country .
Nobody knows the origin of our nation but they want to earn money saying stupid theories about our origins. But it's almost accepted that basque is the oldest language in Europe and probably in the world. And I'm very proud about that.