NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

Postby takeru on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 18:41

Yes, very well said Jochen :D

Mao is a fantastic and very effective mod on the forum, and in the past has also done a great job, as Jochen said, of being an organiser in NSC, and setting up ways in which we could discuss the rules and happenings within NSC as a community.

This organisational role is very useful and valuable to NSC, as it restores order when things aren't quite going well, and in this role, mao is a real asset. Nevertheless, it's important to maintain that NSC is and always has been a community game, where specific rules and actions based purely on the game are most importantly a community decision.

When it comes to things like behaviour and conduct on the forum then of couse it's a mod decision, but for the sake of game rules, even the really minor, insignificant ones, I agree that they must all be decided by the community :D

In the past, all sorts of little things which are now seen as key elements in NSC were decided by lots of different people, e.g. the recap idea from Fearnavigatr, the spinoffs idea from giggsan, the rest jury idea from Boyan... NSC functions best when decisions are all made as a community.

Like we can see with this ongoing decision, polls and questionnaires like this are really the best way to do this, for any sort of rule issue, minor or major :P. And, in organising the polls and setting up discussions, mao is the best 8). But for deciding the contents and outcomes of such decisions, ultimately it should be up to all of us :D
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

Postby Matt on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 18:46

Fearnavigatr wrote:We seem to have an issue here regarding authority.
This is a community-based contest, run by the community that participates in it. The role you have Mao, that we've gladly granted you for your interest and capability, is to keep the community organised and make sure it's run the way we want it to, aswell as helping out making decisions to solve urgent issues. Lately, and seemingly on earlier occasions without particular notice, you've taken on a sort of leadership-approach and made some non-urgent decisions with long term impact by yourself, and seem to be intending to continue with it. I've been trying to, in a nice manner, get across the point that this is something you can't do.

No matter how minor or impact-less these things are, an open discussion for the community's input is required to let this game be run the way it's supposed to. If an open suggestion doesn't get responses, particularly negative ones, by all means its fair game to implement it. But there can't be a single person making a decision without even suggesting it first, because this is a community-run game.

You're needed for the community Mao, for exactly the reasons I said in the third sentence of this post, you make order out of chaos. But when making order out of order, make sure you have the justification of doing so on behalf of the community. I'm sorry that I had to bring this up, but it's necessary that it's approached. I know I'm not the only one who's begun to see issues with some of your decisive actions.


While I appreciate your input and professional approach Jochen I guess we need to go back to January of this year (please check the Attention thread for the full post).

Going forward the game will be administered by the Admins & Mods of the Forum. We can no longer have members pick and choose the rules. That means we would have to make the final decision on changes & updates in regards to this game. And if we feel that it is against the spirit of the game or the the forum then we can make that call to either change or stop certain Suggestions.


It appears to me that this has been forgotten by a few members that what was going on back then. If you really need to know: NSC was THIS close of being canceled as it was no longer within the spirit of this Forum and caused too much hassle and work for Admins and everyone involved with members fighting and arguing about everything that was going on. And I never took any credit for this cause it doesn't really matter but without my suggestion and offer to take over the rules section there would be no NSC.
As much as I understand that this is a Game for the community, due to the expansion and involvement of the actual board things had to be re-adjusted. This game has a major effect on the board and it is essential to maintain somewhat of an order. And if that includes to sometimes make changes and updates, I feel this is a very fair thing to do.

As of Lately, some people fail to look at the big picture here. Do you really think decision are being made for selfish reason or cause I personally feel they are better? That couldn't be further from the truth. I think that my involvement and work on this forum and consideration for everybody's needs and wants have been more than fair. I deeply care and so everytime a slight adjustment is being made all we receive is complaints.

We could go on and go on about this and I really and truly do not want to make a big deal out of this but fact is that this is something that the "leadership role" you referred to in your post was already taken over a long time ago. So all I am asking you is to have a little bit more faith in what is being done and the intention behind it.

I will be more than happy to discuss this over PM if it is required but what we shouldn't be doing is to fight over this.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

Postby SaraLICIOUS on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 19:11

Very mature to delete TF's post .. Very mature. :roll:
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

Postby eurouk3434 on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 19:21

SaraLICIOUS wrote:Very mature to delete TF's post .. Very mature. :roll:


Yeah, I remember that he just posted here......hhmmmm...... :|
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

Postby Matt on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 19:47

This was burried so I'm bumping this:

I would like for everyone (or as many as possible) participants to vote in this Questionaire.

Please click HERE

This link will take you to a poll website where you can vote on a few concerns/ideas regarding NSC. It's only a total of 5 questions so it shouldn't take you longer then 2-3 minutes. We are addressing different issues and concerns and if changes should be made. Obviously this is a majority vote so make sure your voice will be heard.
This is totally anonymous so you can be honest.
I will leave this up for a few days. Please let me know if you have any questions.

The link to the poll is

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/351263
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE

Postby Fearnavigatr on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 21:26

I stand guilty of missing that January post, seeing as it was during my "off-period" of NSC interest. Nevertheless I'm picking up the discussion now.

For easy reference for everyone's convenience, I'm quoting the whole post:
***ANNOUNCEMENT***

It's no secret that the past few days have been rather hectic for the Mods. A lot of stuff went down and we had to deal with a lot complaints and drama that in our opinion could have been avoided. But this is something that's been going on for quite a few months now and we tried our very best to leave things as they are however the Admins & Mods decided that a change is unavoidable in the NSC contest.

You might not be aware of this but whatever happens in this game does affect the entire board. If a upset member leaves the game in many cases it means they also leave the board. Guests and new members also read and check this section and all the bickering and fighting...well it doesn't look really professional, does it?

And you have no idea how much extra work and stress this has caused behind the scenes so this is the change going forward we have to implement:

Going forward the game will be administered by the Admins & Mods of the Forum. We can no longer have members pick and choose the rules. That means we would have to make the final decision on changes & updates in regards to this game. And if we feel that it is against the spirit of the game or the the forum then we can make that call to either change or stop certain Suggestions.

So going forward, please send all of your ideas, suggestions or concerns directly to the Mods and we would then, if applicable, bring it up to the members of this game.

Now I don't want you to panic :). It is really not that bad. YOU are still the most important part of the game (we, in the end TF100, Lush, Narcozid and I) are what the game is about. However this contest has grown so much over the past year that it became unavoidable to have a "Management Team" handle things.
And at this points it will be the Mods until we come up with a new idea to have the members involved (that is the ultimate goal).
Now everything will still be discussed and every person has the right to voice their opinion in regards to whatever they want to discuss. But the two main things that we ask is:

1. Don't just open a topic suggesting/complaining things but rather PM one of the Mods who would then take further actions.

2. The Final decision in regards to changes to the Game lies in the hands of the Mods at this points. But that is temporary as this is quite a lot of work on us in addition to the regular Mod duties :).

This change is effective immediately. I sure hope y'all understand this change. In the end it won't be that different but instead of just changing things left and right we have to have some structure.

That includes for instance the entire 2 Semi Final idea.

Please feel free to contact me or TF100 for any questions you might have. Remember, this is only something temporary while we are trying to figure out a way on how to have the members be more involved in the decision making. (Suggestions are appreciated :) )

The first thing that strikes me is that "this is is only temporary" and "the ultimate goal is to have the members more involved with the decision making". Is this goal even being worked towards?

My point has probably been made pretty clear regarding how I think it should be, decisions by the community summarized by an organiser. I stand by this and still think it's easily possible to maintain such an order. And regardless, I oppose any decisions (apart from urgent ones) being made without a chance of input.
The post also says that this system was implemented because of fights and disagreements within the community affecting the outside view on the whole forum. To comment, I find that these things don't quite have enough to do with the rules of the actual contest to warrant such restrictions as opposed to regular forum modding, the first of the two main points is enough to keep that part in order.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Thunderhammer on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 21:58

I have voted in the questionnaire. I only have one question:

If a country doesn't vote in NSC25 Final (which I hope won't happen), then I should use the 75% penalty, shouldn't I?
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Matt on Sun Aug 03, 2008, 22:29

Thunderhammer wrote:I have voted in the questionnaire. I only have one question:

If a country doesn't vote in NSC25 Final (which I hope won't happen), then I should use the 75% penalty, shouldn't I?


Lol, you hope??? :lol:

I will check the Questionaire results in just a little bit to see how the majority is leaning towards.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Matt on Mon Aug 04, 2008, 22:19

21 people have voted in the Questionaire so far. Thanks a lot. Please make sure to vote if you haven't done so. If we can get 30 nations to vote that would be plenty.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby spiluke on Tue Aug 05, 2008, 13:30

NSC is becoming Animal Farm :roll:
And i don't want the world to see me

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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Boyan on Tue Aug 05, 2008, 13:39

voted in the poll!
wow I need to check out this thread more often :shock: :lol:
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby SpZ on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 10:47

I voted in the poll, but i must say that this poll seriously lacks options. For example why is there an opinion about making nsc 4 weeks while there isn't for example 2 or 2,5 weeks? I think it was never agreed that nsc is supposed to get longer not shorter... I'm rather sure i am not the only person wanting to get nsc shorter.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby SaraLICIOUS on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 13:02

SpZ wrote: I'm rather sure i am not the only person wanting to get nsc shorter.


Nope your not, I wouldn't mind it either :D
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Boyan on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 14:51

SaraLICIOUS wrote:
SpZ wrote: I'm rather sure i am not the only person wanting to get nsc shorter.


Nope your not, I wouldn't mind it either :D

same here!
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Milos Zarkovic on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 14:55

Boyan wrote:
SaraLICIOUS wrote:
SpZ wrote: I'm rather sure i am not the only person wanting to get nsc shorter.


Nope your not, I wouldn't mind it either :D

same here!


same in Montenegro, too! :P
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Matt on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 15:25

Unfortunately we cannot make NSC period shorters then they already are . 7 days for signup, Semis and Final is already pushing the envelope and with 60 members we need to give them the proper time to choose their songs and vote. But the current results show that the slight majority does not want to increase it so at this point we probably going to stick to the 3 week minimum rule. 8)
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Boyan on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 15:40

maomania wrote:Unfortunately we cannot make NSC period shorters then they already are . 7 days for signup, Semis and Final is already pushing the envelope and with 60 members we need to give them the proper time to choose their songs and vote. But the current results show that the slight majority does not want to increase it so at this point we probably going to stick to the 3 week minimum rule. 8)

hmmm, honestlly I do not see any NF's running for a full week these days :?
and many here allready know their entries (those that go with internal selection) edititions ahead :P
so a full week for the sign up is kinda long now if you ask me...5 days might be a better solutiion IMO!
and about the voting...might be the same...so 15 days for a whole edition should be enough!
but hey that's just me :P
and beaing as long as it's now, might be the problem that some people miss on the deadline don't you think :) ?
that's why I'm for the host to put up provisional deadlines (at least) for all semi voting/semi show ; final voting/final show, as Balint did last time in the sign up topic, so everyone can know how much time they have and actually find the period that suits them to listen to the songs and vote on time!
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Milos-BC on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:10

OK,not a bad idea 8)

So,the dates for NSC 26:

'till August 12th 12:00 CET will be the confirmation period,semis will 99% start on 12th already if not than on the morning 13th August

Voting will end on 19th August,and the results will be revealed shortly after

The final will start either at the evening of 19th August or the morning of 20th August

The voting for the final will last until 26th August,with the results coming shortly after that

That's all i can say 8)

If everything goes well with my bandwitch than we will go very fast,if not i will use a friend's PC,so that you won't have to wait :wink:
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Thunderhammer on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:15

I hope the forum will be good during the results, not as it was at NSC25's results :D
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Milos-BC on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:17

Yeah,that as well :D
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Sabrewulf238 on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:27

I was thinking what if the forum does go down again in the future during a results show? :shock:

I think instead of worrying if the forum will come back, we should have a backup forum(like those free forums you can get easily) so that if it so happens that the forums have to go down for mantenence or if they stop working for longer then during NSC 25 we can all just head to the other forum and continue there.

I just thought it might be a good idea if it ever happens that the forum is down for more then a couple of hours (Like a few days)

It probably won't ever be down for that long....but it would be nice to have the option.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby eurouk3434 on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:29

Sabrewulf238 wrote:I was thinking what if the forum does go down again in the future during a results show? :shock:

I think instead of worrying if the forum will come back, we should have a backup forum(like those free forums you can get easily) so that if it so happens that the forums have to go down for mantenence or if they stop working for longer then during NSC 25 we can all just head to the other forum and continue there.

I just thought it might be a good idea if it ever happens that the forum is down for more then a couple of hours (Like a few days)

It probably won't ever be down for that long....but it would be nice to have the option.


I'm pretty sure that the admins wouldn't like that, but they are probably working behind the scenes right now to get the forum properly working again :D

EDIT: I like your signature Peti :mrgreen: :thumbsup Good luck to the British (and Hungarian) athletes too :lol:
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Sabrewulf238 on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:48

eurouk3434 wrote:
Sabrewulf238 wrote:I was thinking what if the forum does go down again in the future during a results show? :shock:

I think instead of worrying if the forum will come back, we should have a backup forum(like those free forums you can get easily) so that if it so happens that the forums have to go down for mantenence or if they stop working for longer then during NSC 25 we can all just head to the other forum and continue there.

I just thought it might be a good idea if it ever happens that the forum is down for more then a couple of hours (Like a few days)

It probably won't ever be down for that long....but it would be nice to have the option.


I'm pretty sure that the admins wouldn't like that, but they are probably working behind the scenes right now to get the forum properly working again :D

EDIT: I like your signature Peti :mrgreen: :thumbsup Good luck to the British (and Hungarian) athletes too :lol:


I didn't mean it like that. :(

In no way was I complaining about the admins fixing the site at all. I meant it more in general just in case something bad does happen. You know preparing for the unexpected.
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby eurouk3434 on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 20:53

Sabrewulf238 wrote:
eurouk3434 wrote:
Sabrewulf238 wrote:I was thinking what if the forum does go down again in the future during a results show? :shock:

I think instead of worrying if the forum will come back, we should have a backup forum(like those free forums you can get easily) so that if it so happens that the forums have to go down for mantenence or if they stop working for longer then during NSC 25 we can all just head to the other forum and continue there.

I just thought it might be a good idea if it ever happens that the forum is down for more then a couple of hours (Like a few days)

It probably won't ever be down for that long....but it would be nice to have the option.


I'm pretty sure that the admins wouldn't like that, but they are probably working behind the scenes right now to get the forum properly working again :D

EDIT: I like your signature Peti :mrgreen: :thumbsup Good luck to the British (and Hungarian) athletes too :lol:


I didn't mean it like that. :(

In no way was I complaining about the admins fixing the site at all. I meant it more in general just in case something bad does happen. You know preparing for the unexpected.


Well, it's not a bad idea, I suppose :) You never know, but if the forum's current problems are sorted out then it might not happen again in the future, but, like I say, you never know :(
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Re: NSC - The RULES/WIKI PAGE - Questionnaire on page 37!

Postby Milos-BC on Wed Aug 06, 2008, 22:15

In that case............*sigh*,i will have one heavy night :oops: :lol:
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